<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1420</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/1/99 1:52:37 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 1 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1420<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re:  Percussive Maintenance<BR>
Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery<BR>
Re:  Low TL Medicinesz<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
RE: LEO's<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
RE: LEO's<BR>
Re: Starport/5FW question...<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
RE: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
re: Police ranks<BR>
Re Alien Tech<BR>
Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:53:55 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Bob Sanders writes:<BR>
> Reading the ship designs using solar sails, and looking at FF&S, Gurps,<BR>
> etc. I have some questions that has always bothered me about Traveller,<BR>
> and would like to get some ideas from the crowd.  Why is it that every race<BR>
> in the Traveller universe uses the same technology?  Jump drives I can<BR>
> understand, put power plants, maneuver drives, hulls, computers, weapons,<BR>
> etc, could and should be different.  And if they are different (thus adding<BR>
> much to the alien flavor to the game) what would each race be likely to use?<BR>
<BR>
The only situation in which you will have competing technologies like that is when there are two or more technologies which are roughly equal, or which one or another group is philosophically opposed to using.  In many cases, the 'standard' systems are just plain _better_ than any competing technology.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:53:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Without a personal belief that the Bible is a highly significant<BR>
>document, you will not study it rigorously enough to produce any<BR>
>insights sufficiently developed to be accepted by respected Bible<BR>
>scholars as significant. The majority of people performing these studies<BR>
>are of a religious bent, even if they are currently in a doubting or<BR>
>skeptical phase.<BR>
<BR>
Without question the bible is a significant document. Three of the worlds<BR>
most pervasive religions are based upon (parts) of it. It's contents and the<BR>
interpretations of its contents have dominated first western, and then world<BR>
history for at least 1800 years.  Anyone who could persuasively refute the<BR>
contents would instantly become both a pariah and potentially incredibly<BR>
wealthy (based on magazine, book and movie deals), and possibly hunted as<BR>
well. (Some of our Right Wing Christian and Islamic brethren don't always<BR>
play nice when their beliefs are threatened.)<BR>
<BR>
The fact is that many scholars who study the bible are not of a religious<BR>
bent. It has simply had too great an effect on the development of western<BR>
culture to not be studied.  Any study based on sound scientific principles<BR>
(as practiced in historical, archeological and anthropological disciplines)<BR>
will be taken seriously by all true biblical scholars. (Of course they won't<BR>
agree on the researchers results, interpretations, or conclusions, why<BR>
should they be different from any other field :))<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:47:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Percussive Maintenance<BR>
<BR>
> From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
 <BR>
>  And here I was thinking of "Hit any key to continue."<BR>
<BR>
My keyboard doesn't have an "any" key.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:49:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
> Never. But I owned one of the *infamous* Seagate ST-251 40 meg drives<BR>
> with "stiction" for many years. Since I rarely turned the system off,<BR>
> it wasn't much of a problem. But if I *did* turn it off, I had to<BR>
> unbolt the drive and give it a quick, *hard* tist to break the heads<BR>
> free. then quickly rebolt the drive and apply power.<BR>
<BR>
That sounds more like an old car than a disk drive.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:07:09 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Low TL Medicinesz<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Subject: Re:  Low TL Medicinesz <BR>
> <BR>
> On 30 Nov 99, at 12:11, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Of course, you won't get drowsy at all if you don't<BR>
> > take anti-histamines.  Acupuncture, vitamin C, and<BR>
> > water all help clear the sinuses with no side effects.<BR>
> <BR>
> However this doesn't (unless your acupuncturist (?) is a whole lot <BR>
> better than the one I tried) help much with hayfever. For that <BR>
> antihistamines or, more recently, steriods are the way to go.<BR>
<BR>
Steroids?  They can weaken the male sex drive; personally, I'd prefer to<BR>
sneeze.  <BR>
<BR>
Moving to the San Francisco area improved my hay fever far more than any<BR>
treatment, and I've done many of them -- nasalide, scratch test/allergy<BR>
shots, seldane, non-prescription antihistamines, and the three I<BR>
mentioned above.  I think that there are just fewer plants to which I'm<BR>
allergic here.  (I didn't start acupuncture, etc., until I moved here,<BR>
so I don't know if that regimen would have been as effective in the<BR>
Rocky Mountain states where I had the worst problems.)<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  Organisms (not just humans, or just sophonts) can be<BR>
allergic to a lot of things.  Maybe some mold is growing in some part of<BR>
the atmospheric control system of the ship, high port, or sealed city. <BR>
Not everyone or everything is affected.  Maybe the livestock in the hold<BR>
are suffering and losing value, or maybe suddenly everyone aboard ship<BR>
except the Aslan is incapacitated by violent respiratory convulsions. <BR>
Maybe one PC has it really bad for a few days aboard ship after visiting<BR>
a high port; it goes away; they visit that high port again; and a few<BR>
days later he's blind and sneezing blood again.  It could take a while<BR>
to put 1 + 1 together.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:23:52 -0500<BR>
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
<Lurk mode off><BR>
<BR>
This is something I have concitered at times as well. If you look even at<BR>
earth's history and at the "technological" diversity that some isolated<BR>
cultures derive, you do come up with "commom denominators" when it comes to<BR>
tasks.<BR>
<BR>
As for any species approach to space travel, there are common denominators<BR>
to conciter:<BR>
<BR>
Power Plants: Although the technique may be different, in a traveller<BR>
universe, there is one fuel above all else that will eventually get looked<BR>
at - Hydrogen - and thus one type of power plant will get developed -<BR>
Fusion. Pre fusion technology may end up being very different between any<BR>
two species, so this could get fairly diverse. ("Hey Pete, what do we do<BR>
with all these cow droppings?" -- "Toss them in the converter, we have to<BR>
get to orbit somehow!")<BR>
<BR>
Control System: Our human concept of silicon/optic crystal computational<BR>
systems may or may not be developed by an alien species. Here is where the<BR>
most diversity would be found. Organic neural networks could be developed<BR>
easier by one species than we could, and some may actually develop life<BR>
forms to act as computer cores. In traveller terms, however, it's the<BR>
rating that counts, not the material. IYTU, a computer of a given number<BR>
may or may not need be silicon based.<BR>
<BR>
Thrust: Here is where the most thinking can come to play. The laws of<BR>
physics will be your guide. It's logical that rockets of some kind, solar<BR>
sails, and subatomic thruster units are technologies that any space-faring<BR>
civilization must develop along with (in the traveller universe) jump<BR>
drives. It is the construction techniques that will be the real diversity.<BR>
I can imagine some very beautiful architecture going into solar sail<BR>
construction.<BR>
<BR>
Hulls: It's got to be strong, it's got to be airtight, and it has to resist<BR>
outside radiation. Thus the material used must be able to form hulls that<BR>
fit the above rules. If you can get a type of wood to do that, then you<BR>
have a race that can use wooden hulls. Translate it into traveller<BR>
compatable hull ratings for YTU and have fun with your players reaction to it.<BR>
<BR>
As far as weapons, you may run into races that have different ideas on<BR>
weapons. Some may never arm ships, some may arm ships with weapons no one<BR>
has seen before. Here is where you, as a GM, have freedom. If it fits you<BR>
traveller universe, open fire. Just make sure it's something you would want<BR>
your players to get their hands on. If you know one of your players would<BR>
use this weapon to get his backside seated on the Iridium throne, don't use<BR>
it (unless you want him to be Emperor or get him killed trying).<BR>
<BR>
Just my thoughts :)<BR>
<BR>
<Lurk mode on><BR>
<BR>
At 12:30 PM 12/1/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Reading the ship designs using solar sails, and looking at FF&S, Gurps, etc.<BR>
>I have some questions that has always bothered me about Traveller, and would<BR>
>like to get some ideas from the crowd.  Why is it that every race in the<BR>
>Traveller universe uses the same technology?  Jump drives I can understand,<BR>
>put power plants, maneuver drives, hulls, computers, weapons, etc, could and<BR>
>should be different.  And if they are different (thus adding much to the<BR>
>alien flavor to the game) what would each race be likely to use?<BR>
>Imps: basic stuff<BR>
>Droyn: sails, solar collectors, geneered brains?<BR>
>Aslan: fusion drives?<BR>
>Hivers: Grown ships (like the pentapods (sp) from T2300)<BR>
>Others?<BR>
><BR>
>I see that each would/could have different strengths & weaknesses, and that<BR>
>all uses of technology could be found through out known space.<BR>
><BR>
>Ideas?<BR>
><BR>
>Bob Sanders<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:35:29 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Unless of course you're in a Star Trek universe where physics are different<BR>
for each race and thus propulsion and weapons as well.  Bleh<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:11 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology is that the<BR>
>laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:06:35 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
<BR>
I had an old B/W Telly once, that used to go blank on the screen<BR>
periodically. I found that three firm but gentle taps on the centre of the<BR>
screen with the back of a teaspoon worked wonders... you just need strong<BR>
nerves at times.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 01 December 1999 07:54<BR>
Subject: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>> I've heard it called "percussive maintenance" -- not<BR>
>>> in Traveller, but by real world engineers.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Ah yes, the barbaric "Tap Test", a time-honored tradition among<BR>
>>engineers, particularly *mechanical* engineers where the tap was<BR>
>>generally administered with a nice heavy wrench. Eventually, passed on<BR>
>>to the general public with the widespread use of consumer<BR>
>>electronics.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Okay, admit it...how many of you whack the TV/radio/etc with the palm<BR>
>>of your hand to "encourage" the darn thing to work?<BR>
><BR>
> And here I was thinking of "Hit any key to continue."<BR>
><BR>
>GC<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:39:53 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
David Healey wrote:<BR>
> Is it possible for list-members from other countries to give a<BR>
> basic run down of their police agencies for people to use in<BR>
> their TU's ?<BR>
<BR>
In the UK we have a number  of  county  and  metropolitan  police<BR>
forces who all cooperate with each other fairly well, and who use<BR>
a central crime database  called  the  Police  National  Computer<BR>
(enquiries to which are called PNC checks).  Within these  police<BR>
forces there are various specialised units  ...  Special  Branch,<BR>
T-Branch (anti-terrorist), the  Vice  Squad,  the  infamous  West<BR>
Midlands Serious Crime  squad,  the  Serious  Fraud  Office,  the<BR>
Complaints Investigation Branch, Criminal Investigation Division,<BR>
the Transport Police (for railways), etc.  In addition  there  is<BR>
Customs & Excise ... mostly visible at seaports and airports, but<BR>
able to pursue investigations anywhere in the  country.  Finally,<BR>
since the end (?) of the cold war MI5  (counterintelligence)  has<BR>
been trying to  gain  responsibility  for  counter-terrorism  and<BR>
anti-drugs (hoping to justify no  budget  cuts  for  itself).  In<BR>
general patrolling officers are unarmed.  Less well known is that<BR>
rail ticket inspectors (or the "Revenue Protection  Squad")  have<BR>
the powers to  formally  *arrest*  someone  travelling  by  train<BR>
without a valid ticket, although they usually just  give  out  an<BR>
on-the-spot fine.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU I have different local police structures for each planet ...<BR>
with different rank titles.  A senior detective on one planet may<BR>
be a Constable, on another an Investigator,  on  yet  another  an<BR>
Arbiter, or even a Sherrif, and so on.  On some planets  suspects<BR>
are  considered  "innocent  until  proven  guilty",  others  have<BR>
innocent / guilty / not proven.  Basically,  no  standardisation.<BR>
Interstellar crimes fall under the jurisdiction of the  MOJ  (and<BR>
also the Imp Navy and IISS in the  case  of  piracy).  And  where<BR>
local criminals move to another planet the MOJ act like  INTERPOL<BR>
and coordinate different planet's local police forces.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:57:35 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
I plead ignorance.  Is "Scotland Yard" still around and how does it fit in<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
><BR>
>In the UK we have a number  of  county  and  metropolitan  police<BR>
>forces who all cooperate with each other fairly well, and who use<BR>
>a central crime database  called  the  Police  National  Computer<BR>
>(enquiries to which are called PNC checks).  Within these  police<BR>
>forces there are various specialised units  ...  Special  Branch,<BR>
>T-Branch (anti-terrorist), the  Vice  Squad,  the  infamous  West<BR>
>Midlands Serious Crime  squad,  the  Serious  Fraud  Office,  the<BR>
>Complaints Investigation Branch, Criminal Investigation Division,<BR>
>the Transport Police (for railways), etc.  In addition  there  is<BR>
>Customs & Excise ... mostly visible at seaports and airports, but<BR>
>able to pursue investigations anywhere in the  country.  Finally,<BR>
>since the end (?) of the cold war MI5  (counterintelligence)  has<BR>
>been trying to  gain  responsibility  for  counter-terrorism  and<BR>
>anti-drugs (hoping to justify no  budget  cuts  for  itself).  In<BR>
>general patrolling officers are unarmed<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:10:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com> who wrote:<BR>
> One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology is that the<BR>
> laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
><BR>
> Engineering is an exercise in constrained optimization, with the<BR>
> constraints being physics, economics, etc, so the engineering solutions to<BR>
> problems will be similar, given that the constraints are similar. It seems<BR>
that<BR>
> economics does not vary significantly across the Traveller universe, so<BR>
> with the same laws of physics we should not be too surprised to find<BR>
similar<BR>
> (note that I said *similar* but not *identical*) technology.<BR>
<BR>
I agree, but we also know that many roads can get you to the same<BR>
destination.  ForEx. look at the many different types of power generation<BR>
plants in the world.  Gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind, etc... they are all<BR>
optimized (the best they can be at existing technology) for their function.<BR>
However they all still provide power.  That doesn't answer my question of<BR>
how the different races all developed the same solution to the engineering<BR>
problem produced by space travel.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:19:34 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
"Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Reading the ship designs using solar sails, and looking at FF&S, Gurps, etc.<BR>
> I have some questions that has always bothered me about Traveller, and would<BR>
> like to get some ideas from the crowd.  Why is it that every race in the<BR>
> Traveller universe uses the same technology?  Jump drives I can understand,<BR>
<BR>
Really? So, why is that?<BR>
<BR>
If you really understood, you'd be running around in circles, gouging <BR>
your eyes out and screaming...<BR>
<BR>
> put power plants, maneuver drives, hulls, computers, weapons, etc, could and<BR>
> should be different.  <BR>
<BR>
Not if everyone copied them off the same basic prototype.<BR>
<BR>
> And if they are different (thus adding much to the<BR>
> alien flavor to the game) what would each race be likely to use?<BR>
> Imps: basic stuff<BR>
<BR>
Based on models found in Sol's asteroid belt, on Vland and on<BR>
Zhodane.<BR>
<BR>
> Droyn: sails, solar collectors, geneered brains?<BR>
<BR>
Back to this...<BR>
<BR>
> Aslan: fusion drives?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they all look like Solomani ships - that's where they<BR>
copied the jump drive from, they probably copied the maneuver<BR>
drive (which the Terrans copied from the Vilani) and so on.<BR>
<BR>
> Hivers: Grown ships (like the pentapods (sp) from T2300)<BR>
<BR>
Hm, early Hiver ships probably looked semi-different (although<BR>
as another poster pointed out, their laws of physics are the<BR>
same as ours and there are a limited number of "optimal"<BR>
designs for ship hulls, etc).<BR>
<BR>
Once the Hivers "invented" regular jump drive and stopped using<BR>
the "inferior" version that they really invented, they probably<BR>
started using standard thrusters, power plants, etc.<BR>
<BR>
> Others?<BR>
<BR>
All the same too. The Vilani discouraged regionalism during<BR>
their rule(s), thus forcing out local & regional technologies<BR>
in favour of "standard Vilani" designs.<BR>
 <BR>
Have I posted this lately? Stop me if you've heard this one before...<BR>
<BR>
Grandfather invented the jump drive, the gravitic maneuver/thruster<BR>
drive and probably perfected the catalyzed fusion plant before <BR>
moving on the antimatter power generation and dimensional gates.<BR>
<BR>
In the process of seeding humaniti far and wide and visiting the<BR>
homeworlds of the various non-human "major" races, he (or his<BR>
children) left behind samples in the from of semi-broken or abandoned<BR>
ships. Most of the "major" races made a decent push into their<BR>
near space (the Vilani and Hivers being the most successful, followed<BR>
by the K'kree, then down to the real copycats, like the Solomani,<BR>
Zhodani, Aslan and Vargr) during which time they lucked upon a<BR>
derelict Ancient ship which they proceeded to copy with impunity.<BR>
(without impunity?)<BR>
<BR>
The Vilani, Hivers and K'ree all get extra credit though. The Vilani<BR>
colonized several worlds via sub-light generation ships before <BR>
discovering jump. The Hivers actually invented the darn thing themselves,<BR>
perhaps proving them the smartest race in the galaxy, but droped their<BR>
own version, which was inferior to the real thing. The K'kree<BR>
seem to have discovered gravitics independently in their quest to wipe<BR>
out the race inhabiting their nearby moon or planet (I forget which<BR>
it was). <BR>
<BR>
The only race to ever have been "caught in the act" are the Genoee,<BR>
who were originally considered a "major" human race during the early<BR>
Vilani period, until the Vilani also discovered the ship the Genoee<BR>
had copied. Having copied jump drive instead of "inventing" it reduced<BR>
the Genoee to a mere "minor" race in the Vilani taxonomy (and of course,<BR>
at the time, the Vilani were the only "major" race).<BR>
<BR>
Whether the discovery of the Ancient derelict ships was covered up<BR>
on purpose by the "race at large" or whether the "inventors" of<BR>
the jump drive simply wanted all the fame and fortune is unclear<BR>
and probably unprovable one way or another.<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
Java Evangelist, KL Group                   http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:20:05 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
ehenry wrote:<BR>
> I plead ignorance.  Is "Scotland Yard" still around and how does<BR>
> it fit in<BR>
<BR>
Scotland Yard *was* the address of the original headquarters  for<BR>
the London Metropolitan Police (the "Met").  Some  time  ago  the<BR>
Met relocated to an office tower block called New  Scotland  Yard<BR>
(it had its name on a revolving silver(ish)  triangluar  sign  at<BR>
the base of the tower).  During the last  year  the  local  press<BR>
have dropped the "New" from the name  so  I  don't  know  if  the<BR>
original Scotland Yard still exists.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:41:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport/5FW question...<BR>
<BR>
At 10:21 AM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Andy Akins wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I'm working on something for SJG, and could use some help with a little <BR>
>> research...<BR>
>><BR>
>> ..does anyone know of any Class A or B (V or IV to GURPS players) starport <BR>
>> in the Spinward Marche that were downgraded to C or D due to battle damage<BR>
>> in the Fifth Frontier War?<BR>
><BR>
>Not officially.  Best bet might be Jewell; the UWP codes aren't changed, but<BR>
>that doesn't mean they're correct.  Jewell is also big enough to have more<BR>
>than one starport, so maybe only one of the ports in a landing zone suffered<BR>
>that much damage. <BR>
><BR>
>Arguments in favor: we know Jewell suffered a prolonged siege by Zhodani<BR>
>forces; I'd have to look at SMC, but I recall at least two episodes of<BR>
>landing operations.  The first was pushed off, and the second on another<BR>
>continent was apparently more successful, if I remember right.  In any<BR>
>case, Jewell never fell completely.<BR>
<BR>
In Ground Forces I'm using Jewell as one of my "sidebar worlds".. examples<BR>
of what TL 12 combat feels like on the ground from the grunt's point of<BR>
view.  So it would be a good candidate.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:01:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
The reason that you get the same solution for spaceflight is that your<BR>
constraints are the same. For power plants, coal is better if you have an<BR>
abundant supply of coal, nuclear is better if you don't have lots of<BR>
environmentalists (yes, that's a joke), etc. For spaceflight, you need lots<BR>
of power from a small power source. This will greatly limit your options for<BR>
power plant technology, for example. My rationalization for the same<BR>
technology everywhere is that the engineering challenges are similar enough<BR>
for all of the races to yield only one viable solution.<BR>
<BR>
I think a good example is the construction of nuclear weapons. Imagine<BR>
different cultures developing nuclear weapons without the ability to spy on<BR>
their high-tech adversary (gratuitous bashing of defeated cold war<BR>
adversaries omitted with some difficulty). I will bet that the weapons will<BR>
be amazingly similar in construction. Same problem, same physics, same<BR>
solution.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:10 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com> who wrote:<BR>
> > One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology is that<BR>
the<BR>
> > laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Engineering is an exercise in constrained optimization, with the<BR>
> > constraints being physics, economics, etc, so the engineering solutions<BR>
to<BR>
> > problems will be similar, given that the constraints are similar. It<BR>
seems<BR>
> that<BR>
> > economics does not vary significantly across the Traveller universe, so<BR>
> > with the same laws of physics we should not be too surprised to find<BR>
> similar<BR>
> > (note that I said *similar* but not *identical*) technology.<BR>
><BR>
> I agree, but we also know that many roads can get you to the same<BR>
> destination.  ForEx. look at the many different types of power generation<BR>
> plants in the world.  Gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind, etc... they are all<BR>
> optimized (the best they can be at existing technology) for their<BR>
function.<BR>
> However they all still provide power.  That doesn't answer my question of<BR>
> how the different races all developed the same solution to the engineering<BR>
> problem produced by space travel.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:59:21 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology<BR>
> is that the laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
><BR>
> Engineering is an exercise in constrained optimization, with<BR>
> the constraints being physics, economics, etc, so the<BR>
> engineering solutions to problems will be similar, given that<BR>
> the constraints are similar. It seems that economics does not<BR>
> vary significantly across the Traveller universe, so with the<BR>
> same laws of physics we should not be too surprised to find<BR>
> similar (note that I said *similar* but not *identical*)<BR>
> technology.<BR>
<BR>
Two problems here:<BR>
<BR>
- - First, the resource availability (mineral and otherwise) varies<BR>
  from planet to planet which will affect the economics of  using<BR>
  different technologies.  (eg. A lack of local radioactivies may<BR>
  mean  fission  reactors  are  economically  unviable,   leading<BR>
  instead to a dependance on solar power, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
- - Second, for isolated worlds (outside the 3I or similar)  it  is<BR>
  possible to progress to medium TL without fully  exploring  all<BR>
  technologies technically feasable to low TL.  (eg. Romans  with<BR>
  SMGs)<BR>
<BR>
Okay, high TL multi-world empires would move  towards  technology<BR>
homogeny so the 3I and Zhos whould be similar, but below that ...<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:55:12 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
That's odd...I thought 'Scotland Yard' was the HQ of your equivalent of<BR>
the FBI, a national police force...Whatever they're called...I've only<BR>
heard them referred to as 'Scotland Yard'.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, my experience comes from watching things like 'Cracker' and<BR>
suchlike on PBS and A&E, and a pile of mysteries...<BR>
<BR>
Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ehenry wrote:<BR>
> > I plead ignorance.  Is "Scotland Yard" still around and how does<BR>
> > it fit in<BR>
> <BR>
> Scotland Yard *was* the address of the original headquarters  for<BR>
> the London Metropolitan Police (the "Met").  Some  time  ago  the<BR>
> Met relocated to an office tower block called New  Scotland  Yard<BR>
> (it had its name on a revolving silver(ish)  triangluar  sign  at<BR>
> the base of the tower).  During the last  year  the  local  press<BR>
> have dropped the "New" from the name  so  I  don't  know  if  the<BR>
> original Scotland Yard still exists.<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:22:55 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
At 12:51 -0500 1/12/99, "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>This site is overall entirely cool. I just got my copy of _Delta Green_ a<BR>
>week ago and I'm in love. *Great* source material for any modern/near<BR>
>future conspiracy/paranoia/horror type game. Robert, take note. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
The Nocturnum sequence is also very good for this type of thing.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:09:20 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Alien Tech<BR>
<BR>
>Imps: basic stuff<BR>
>Droyn: sails, solar collectors, geneered brains?<BR>
>Aslan: fusion drives?<BR>
>Hivers: Grown ships (like the pentapods (sp) from T2300)<BR>
>Others?<BR>
><BR>
>I see that each would/could have different strengths & weaknesses, and that<BR>
>all uses of technology could be found through out known space.<BR>
><BR>
>Ideas?<BR>
><BR>
one idea: go play 2300... ;)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously though, I don't like that idea very much. It was bad enough<BR>
remembering that a K'Kree stateroom is 25Td, and a Droyn SR holds 2, etc.<BR>
The basic technologies of space travel are unlikely to be as varied as you<BR>
suggest; effective travel requires certain key functions, best provided by<BR>
the stadard tech.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:32:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >  And here I was thinking of "Hit any key to continue."<BR>
><BR>
> My keyboard doesn't have an "any" key.<BR>
<BR>
Some old keyboards don't have the key. On DOS-based machines, you actually<BR>
have to hold down Ctrl, Alt and Del.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:41:41 -0600<BR>
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com><BR>
Subject: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
<BR>
With the discussion of Dead-Fall Ordnance going on on the <BR>
GT:Navy playtest group, I got to thinking about Babylon 5 and the <BR>
weapons that the Shadows (or was it the Vorlons ...) used to kill <BR>
planets.  They simply dropped large chunks of streamlined metal <BR>
through the atmosphere and the concussion was enough to <BR>
penetrate the crust and break the planet up from inside.<BR>
<BR>
Well, here is a 6 cf, Radically Streamlined, Highly Armored Dead-<BR>
Fall missile.  It has limited manuevering capability, just enough to <BR>
slow it down for reentry so aerobraking is not necessary.  You just <BR>
drop it from orbit and when it hits, it does massive amounts of <BR>
damage (5dx2000 (2) ... more than a 0.0001 kiloton MicroNuke and <BR>
almost as much as a 0.001 kiloton).<BR>
<BR>
I will try to list all locations where I found appropriate rules.<BR>
<BR>
Body              : 6 cf, empty space<BR>
Structure Profile : TL7 Extra Heavy Frame, Very Cheap Materials, <BR>
Robotic (I used low TL stuff for its weight)<BR>
Armor Profile     : TL6 DR 1200 Cheap Metal (I used low TL stuff for <BR>
its weight)<BR>
Total Cost        : MCr0.064<BR>
Size Mod          : 0<BR>
<BR>
Total Weight is 17402 lbs.  This means for it has the equivalent of <BR>
17402 lbs of thrust from gravity. VE2/157, Falling.<BR>
Terminal Velocity in conjunction with the Reactionless Thruster <BR>
(which is the top speed) is 15780 mph. VE2/157, Falling<BR>
<BR>
According to VE2/164, Space-to-Ground Capability, a vehicle must <BR>
decelerate by (orbital velocity - top air speed) / 1500 minutes before <BR>
it can enter the atmosphere.  Earth's is 17800 so this missile must <BR>
decelerate for 1.3 minutes if it were aerobraking.  As it is not (it shall <BR>
use its Reactionless thruster), we don't have to worry about that.<BR>
<BR>
According to VE2/164, Space-to-Ground Capability, the vehicle is <BR>
approximately 15,000 miles up when it enters the atmosphere.<BR>
<BR>
According to VE2/157, Falling, a vehicles gains 20 mph per second <BR>
until terminal velocity is reached.  Well, we are already at terminal <BR>
velocity so we don't have to worry about that, either.<BR>
<BR>
We now have a 8.7 sTon hunk of metal screaming throught the <BR>
atmosphere at Mach 21 (more in the upper reaches of the <BR>
atmosphere).<BR>
<BR>
According to VE2/159, Hitting Buildings and Immovable Obstacles <BR>
(I assume the planet should suffice for this definition), we use the <BR>
TBone Collision rule from VE2/158 which directs us to the top of <BR>
the page.  Effectively : (120 (the HPs) x 15780) / 200 Dice of <BR>
Damage or 9468d.  And if we put a special point on it, 9468d (2).  <BR>
Lets round to 10,000 and we have 5dx2000(2) points of damage.  <BR>
That's 70,000 average points of damage.  A standard missile only <BR>
does 16,800 average points of damage (assuming the armor <BR>
divisor of 10).<BR>
<BR>
Of course, this missile is a lot heavier and a twice as expensive as <BR>
the standard, but considering you don't have to worry about <BR>
guidance or targeting, just drop and forget, you could lay thousands <BR>
of these in an upper atmosphere and wreak all kinds of havoc.  And <BR>
most important of all, it works with the standard missile launchers!<BR>
<BR>
I would have submitted this to GT:Navy, but Christopher Thrash has <BR>
already submitted some really good ones.  I think that's plenty.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Here is my printout.<BR>
<BR>
Statistics : TL12, HT 6, Size Mod 0, 17,401.5 lbs, 6 cf, $ 63,550 , <BR>
100 kW Used, 540,000 kW Produced (E Cell), Operating Duration <BR>
1 H 30 M, 16,601 lbs Motive Thrust, Vehicle Features : <BR>
Computerized Controls, Radical streamlining<BR>
<BR>
Air Performance : Motive Thrust 16,601 lbs, Stall Speed 22,621.95 <BR>
mph, Top Speed 15,780.21 mph, aAccel 19.08 mph/s, aMR 0, aSR <BR>
4, aDecel 0 mph/s<BR>
<BR>
Space Performance : sAcc 0.115 g, sDec 0.115 g, sMR 0.115<BR>
<BR>
Structure Profile: TL7 Robotic Extra Heavy Frame Very Cheap <BR>
Materials <BR>
Armor Profile: TL6 DR 1200 Cheap Metal (TURLFB) <BR>
Basic Emission Cloaking, TL8, 20 sf, 20 lbs, $ 3,000 , TL-4 to <BR>
detect with Passive Sensors <BR>
Basic Stealth, TL7, 20 sf, 10 lbs, $ 1,500 , TL-4 to detect with <BR>
Active Sensors <BR>
<BR>
Body, HP 120, PD 4, DR 1200, 17,371.5 lbs, 6 cf, $ 58,550 , <BR>
Empty Space 1.46 cf <BR>
<BR>
     GT Thruster, TL11, 1 sTon of Thrust, 60 lbs, 2.4 cf, $6,000, <BR>
Vectored, Short Term Access (used to achieve TVel and slow for <BR>
reentry)<BR>
     Gravity Thrust, 14,601 lbs of Thrust (only used to achieve <BR>
terminal velocity)<BR>
     Small Computer, 1.5 lbs, 0.03 cf, $ 1,250 , Complexity 6, Robot <BR>
Brain, Hardened <BR>
     Rechargable E Cell, 20 lbs, 0.2 cf, $ 2,000 <BR>
     Inertial Navigation System, TL9, 10 lbs, 0.2 cf, $ 12,500 (Used to <BR>
keep it pointed "down")<BR>
<BR>
- - - -<BR>
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)<BR>
<BR>
- - Encrypt your messages!<BR>
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!<BR>
<BR>
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!<BR>
<BR>
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)<BR>
<BR>
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto<BR>
<BR>
- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.<BR>
<BR>
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at<BR>
     http://www.felixcafe.com/<BR>
<BR>
- - - -<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1420<BR>
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